Interview with Nikki Myers
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Kari Doherty: [00:00:00] Thank you for listening to the Luminous Recovery Yoga Podcast, hosted by Kari Doherty. The views and opinions expressed here are strictly those of the person who gave them. Take what you like and leave the rest. These views and opinions do not represent any specific 12 step program, only my experience, strength, and hope in recovering from the dise of addiction and codependency.
If you'd like to learn more, please visit my website at www. Dot Luminous Recovery Yoga dot. Hello, my friend. Thank you so much for joining me for this week's episode of the Luminous Recovery Yoga Podcast. This week I have an extra special treat for you. I am interviewing the amazing Nikki Myers, who is the creator of Yoga of 12 Step Recovery, Y 12 sr.
If you've been a listener of this podcast, you know that I talk about. Yoga of 12 step recovery quite a bit. And in fact, this podcast is fashioned and themed [00:01:00] after the yoga of 12 step recovery meetings. Normally. In each episode, I do a short share based on a yoga and recovery topic. I share my experience, strength, and hope on that topic.
And then if you continue listening, I provide a short yoga practice that is gentle and that helps to embody the theme, as I like to call it, embodied understanding. So it was a true honor to have an experience of sitting with Nikki, getting to interview her, and getting to just look at her, talk to her, and share this conversation with you.
So I hope that you enjoy it. I hope you receive some nugget of wisdom. Nikki is incredible. I will be putting in the show notes and the description, depending on where you're watching this, some resources and places where you can find Nikki. And if you enjoy this interview, please feel free to share it with your friends.
I hope you enjoy this opportunity listening to this conversation where I got to sit with Nikki Myers. And with that being said, here's the interview. All [00:02:00] right. Welcome, Nikki. I am so excited for this interview. I am here with my precious, precious teacher, Nikki Myers. I am so thrilled that you said yes to having this conversation interview with me and just to give a brief introduction of Nikki Myers.
Nikki Myers is the creator, mastermind pioneer behind yoga and 12 step recovery, as we affectionately call it. Why 12 Sr. And I personally discovered why 12 Sr. Years ago. But because of the just travel. And you live in Indiana, right, Nikki? I do. So your trainings were in Indiana a lot at the time, and I was like, I don't know when I'm in Portland, Oregon, I don't know when I'm gonna find myself in Indiana.
But then we had this Covid 19 pandemic and like everyone else, you went virtual. Yeah. And because of that, I was able to take your training, which. Revolutionary, and I wanna get into that a little bit. But I also wanna give you an opportunity to introduce yourself mostly because I [00:03:00] love the way you introduce yourself.
So if you could. Introduce. I, I see even in your, your Zoom name, you've got, she,
Nikki Myers: her, we, yeah. Yep, yep. So tell
Kari Doherty: us, so tell us, Nikki Myers, who, who are you?
Nikki Myers: Nikki first. Thank you. Right. I, it's my honor to be here with you. So I'm really grateful and I'm grateful for the work that you're doing in spreading.
In supporting people in sustainable recovery and all of those kinds of things. So first, thank you. So grateful, pleasure. So deeply grateful. So I'm gonna do it the way I always do is give it to us the way it is. So I'm Nikki and my pronouns are she, her and we. And in this little intro, it gives a little insight into what that we really is.
All about. Right? So wherever I am, right, I, the running joke has always been, if I ever spoke at Harvard Medical School, I [00:04:00] would do this the same way, or, you know, and, and the point is, no matter where I am, really, when I'm in this context, I do it the same way. and it's, I'm Nikki, and I am an mba, I'm a yoga therapist.
I'm a somatic experiencing practitioner, which is this trauma healing methodology and work that was developed by Dr. Peter Levine. Right. I'm the founder of Ovar. Like you said, all of those things and, and the big three letter word is, and, and, I'm an addict. I'm an alcoholic. I'm a co-dependent. I'm the survivor of both childhood and adult sexual trauma.
I'm a love addict. I'm a recovering debtor spender. I'm a former commercial sex worker, and I'm the mother of two living and one deceased child. I'm the grandmother of five. I'm the great-grandmother of seven, which every time that comes outta [00:05:00] my mouth, I can't believe it. I'm the great-grandmother. Seven.
Right. And right. I am a spiritual seeker. I'm a lover of all things dogs. I love dogs, right? I'm really a lover of people and a lover of life. And all of those things are true. All of those things are true. What and what part of my big part of my recovery journey has been in this reintegration of all these parts of myself, right?
That there are no bad parts really. There are no bad parts. And so, and I had, I had shunned. Some parts of myself made them bad off and wrong and made other parts of myself, you know, the things that, that really get accolades and all that kind of stuff in the world. I made those right and wonderful and praiseworthy all of that.
And what happened was I, there was a war. There [00:06:00] was a fissure in my being because all those experiences are there, right? And there was this war, there was this internal fight, there was this fissure in my being, and what I discovered was finding a way and doing the work in order to reintegrate. , all of those parts of myself, I, you know, talk about this sometimes.
Like there was the Disney, Pixar movie not too long ago called Inside Out Such a great one. Right. And they were depicting kind of this one I'm speaking of mm-hmm. and in in Inside Out. Mm-hmm . The truth is there's a we inside of me and that's what the we is all about. There's a we inside of me. So when I.
And we talk about this 12 step is definitely very, very much, this is the, what I founded was the yoga, 12 step recovery and 12 step is very, very much a part of my healing journey. Mm-hmm. and, and I [00:07:00] discovered when I do this integration work from, from 12 steps and from several other mechanisms, right.
All those parts that we inside a meat piece, I mean, that's ancient that, that. You know, I think about that there are a thousand names for the divine mother. Mm-hmm. a thousand names for the da, and some of 'em are pretty fierce and so , but they're all the divine mother, right? They're all the divine mother.
So finding this way to do this work to reintegrate. , all these parts of, of myself has become very much a part of this healing journey and what we talk about in, in 12 Steps all the time, you know the founders of the 12 Step program recognize they talk about stinking thinking, right. That really, mm-hmm.
you know, a lot of this sits right between our two ears. Mm-hmm. , right. It sits right between her two ears and they, they, they talk about the c. Right. The committee, the shitty committee. The sh. [00:08:00] Yeah. Sometimes it's the itty bitty shitty committee. Right? . I love it. Well, but the thought with this, we, and those are all those fights.
That's all that fight that goes on. What if we really can integrate those parts so that the committee is working in harmony, right. So that there's a harmony. Believe me, all of them have something to offer. Absolutely. All of them have so, To give. What if we really can't harmonize Right. That activity. Yeah.
And then what we come to realize, right, is while all of these are a part of this experience, the truth is none of them define me. I'm much more than any of those. But until the fight stops, until there's harmony, I don't have the possibility to even begin to recognize that there's something so beyond.
Right. All this stuff, there's something else, right? [00:09:00] Mm-hmm. . And so the idea, again, all of them define me. None of them are, are, are, are all of them inform this walk in in the world. And none of them define me. None of them define me. So I love introducing myself that way. And the journey has been this way to find.
Equanimity this way to continue, I shouldn't say has been, continues to be right. Mm-hmm. , as long as I'm walking in this plane of existence. That for me is really the work, or a big part of that work. Yes. And, and and so I'm just so grateful for it that this has transformed my life. It is, has served in such a way.
I recognize that even in the shit, even in all the chaos and confusion and all of those kinds of things, that there's gold in there. There's gold in there, absolutely. And for me to [00:10:00] acknowledge it all, Makes it possible for me to find the gold for me to search for The gold is in all of that. So that's kind of the intro, right?
Kari Doherty: Oh, I love it. I love it. And gosh, I've, you know, I've heard you speak in so many different way, like, you know, taking training with you and I took that symposium weekend that you put together in September and. You know, and the thing about it, like you said, even if you were introducing yourself at Harvard Medical School, you introduce yourself the same every time.
And Yeah. I get chills every time you do it. I love
Nikki Myers: it. I love it actually. Me too. and,
Kari Doherty: you know, and it's, it's. Gosh, I just, I have so many things I want to tell you. It's like I get to sit with a teacher that, you know, I, I got to meet with you in a group setting, but I've never gotten to have a one-on-one conversation with you.
And, you know, the first thing I, I need to say to you is thank you. Like, thank you so much. Like, oh man, it, it warms me and right in the center of my chest, it, you [00:11:00] know, I discovered yoga. About seven years ago, almost eight years ago, and I dis and you know, I, I ended up meeting my sponsor in the studio, right?
Like, that's how, it's like yoga and recovery have never been separate for me because I was doing yoga and I was getting into it and, you know, I was a crazy person but didn't really know it. But you know this crazy shit that comes outta your mouth, Uhhuh . And you meet someone in recovery and they listen and they're like, hm.
Interesting. You might, and this person at the time said to me, you know, you might find yourself in recovery someday. And I was like, what the fuck does that mean? And I got, I got semi offended, like, what do you mean, you know? And then eventually I hit a rock bottom and I called this person and I said, could I come to that meeting with you?
And they were like, Let's pick me up. Let's go. You know? And so I discovered recovery in the yoga studio, and I always could tell that like the [00:12:00] yoga teachers were saying something that sounded familiar that I was hearing at the meetings, and I just couldn't quite put my finger on it. Like I wasn't there yet.
And then when I discovered there was this thing called Y 12 SR Yoga and 12 Step Recovery, and I took your training, what you gave me, Nikki, was the explicit permission that I needed at that time. To put 'em together and it was like I was just waiting for someone to point it out in the explicit way that you did
And you know, for anyone who hasn't taken that, you know, do you call it a training? Do you call it a Yeah, it is. You know, it's not a yoga teacher training, but it's a training. No, you know, it's not a yoga, yoga
Nikki Myers: teacher training. Of course, we reference a lot because it is Absolutely.
Kari Doherty: But even if you know, whoever you are, if you're curious about how the two things.
Combine just the way you do it is so, I mean, it was just everything. I had been waiting for someone to say and, and you [00:13:00] said, and you said it all and put it in a slideshow. And I was like, this is just everything I've been meeting. And after that weekend with you, I think I started my meeting within a month.
Like I needed a minute to let it settle in, but I started a meeting very shortly after. And currently still running the only meeting in Portland, Oregon, so. Wow. Wow. That is fascinating. It's changed locations a couple of times. We're currently at the Portland Elano Club, which is amazing because we're right.
It is amazing. We're right downtown. Like so many people have access to the Elano Club just because everyone knows, not everyone, but a lot of people know about the Elano Club. I actually had this goal of getting Y 12 SR out of the yoga studio. That was actually something that I wanted to do. I love it. Because, you know, certain types of folks go to yoga studios and there's nothing against that.
But also those are not the type of people who always walk into the Elano Club. That's right. And so it was really my goal to get Y [00:14:00] 12 Sr into a different type of space where you wouldn't necessarily.
The same types of folks. And then, you know this podcast was born because of, of you. I, you know, basically what, you know, what I thought was like, okay. If we wanna know what Y 12 US are is, we could certainly find a podcast episode now, including this one with an interview with Nikki Myers, because you know, your voice is out there.
But aside from getting to an actual meeting, There just has not been other resources. And so I created this podcast as a deep desire to have a resource that, you know, so I basically, the, the, my, my episodes, aside from interviews I do I, I pick a topic, I share my experience, strength, and help on the topic, how it relates to recovery, how that ties into yoga, a yoga practice, and then I offer a gentle.
15 minute yoga practice based on the topic is [00:15:00] perfect .
Nikki Myers: Oh my God. I love it. I love, and so I've
Kari Doherty: been doing that for about maybe four or five months now. I started this maybe in June because I just, there needed to be something else. I needed something else to exist besides just getting to a meeting. You know, you can listen to recovery podcasts.
There are recovery podcasts out there. There are yoga videos and things out there, right, but I needed something Y 12 Sr. That I could start spreading the message. This is so cool. . So you know, as of right now, like I just, you know, I think this is probably like episode 24 or something, you know? Wow. But ultimately, I, I pick a topic I share on it, and then I teach a yoga class that helps with embodied understanding.
It's how do we bring these principles into our body? How do I. How do I understand a boundary outside of just my thinking, , you know, like what does it feel like to actually [00:16:00] interact with your yoga mat as the boundary or it's perfect, you know? And so I just
grandmother a great grandmother of children, but also of ideas and and so this podcast was born out of something that I saw needed. In the Y 12, our conversation. Perfect. And
Nikki Myers: I'm so honored. I'm so
Kari Doherty: honored. I'm honored. I'm so honored. I like the Honor is just so mutual and so that's why I just to thank you and say this podcast exists because of, and you.
And how I wanted to take the work forward. I love podcasting. I think it's I have a great time doing it. So yeah. So I wanted to share that as a resource that this podcast was created to capture a mini meeting.
Nikki Myers: Like we will share this as a resource. I hope
Kari Doherty: so. I, oh, we absolutely thrilled about, and I've gotten a lot of good feedback on it.
You know, just people enjoying the [00:17:00] opportunity. You know, and this is what I love about Y 12 Sr. Nicki, is I love that it's also for people who haven't discovered recovery yet. That's right. And, and I always say to people, rec, if you're recovery curious, just come to a meeting. Yeah. You know, because there's, there are barriers to 12 step meetings that some people.
That's right. Yes. And what I love about why 12 Sr, is that it sort of addresses some of that barrier by, you know, even offering a yoga practice, which some people will be like, well, I like yoga. Okay. That's right. You know, and so it, it's just, it's so brilliant and I'm so deeply grateful to you. Oh. And thank you.
Nikki Myers: I love that sentence. We, we in our format is for anyone and everyone affected by their own addicted behavior or Yes. Affected by the addictive behavior of others. Yes. And you know, I always think about this from the perspective of even if addiction, As we see it, it is not directly affecting your life on a [00:18:00] day-to-day basis.
Everybody's affected by this. The absolutely constant we live in an alcoholic society. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Yeah. And then you think about how every, the late, one of the latest statistics, every five and a half minutes, someone in the United States dies of an of an opioid overdose or some kind of overdose, right?
So, you know, when we think about this, this. Everyone at some level. So anyone at all is welcome into into the .
Kari Doherty: Yeah, and you know, that's something, and I wanna go back to what you said in your introduction about integration, cuz that's something that I've been talking about quite a bit lately. And why Y 12 Sr.
You know, I'm part of 12 step programs. You know what we call those, what affinity groups where it's like, yes, this is what we talk about. You know, I'm Al-Anon is my primary program. Yes. So when I go to an Al-Anon meeting, Al-Anon is the only thing I expect to hear. It is [00:19:00] the thing I talk about. We only share that literature and, and that has a, a really sacred place.
In my life. Right, exactly. And I don't get to talk about the fact that I'm also a weed addict there, that I don't get to talk about the fact that I also struggle with all of the other weird shit that I pick up along the way. I mean, I could pick up anything and make it a weird addiction, like
Nikki Myers: exactly. Hey, I got you.
I, I got you. You know,
Kari Doherty: and so I, what I love about Y 12 Sr. And you know, there's also that other line in the introduction all a's are welcome. Oh. Because when I come to Y 12 Sr, I get to talk about how my weird addict issues also bump up against my weird codependent issues. Yeah. When I stopped, when I stopped smoking weed, I went to all my friends that I smoked weed with and I was like, I'm so sorry I quit smoking.
We. And I hope that that doesn't make you mad or affect our relationship because I know it's something that we did a lot together and like I couldn't separate the fact that the addict didn't [00:20:00] really wanted to
Nikki Myers: wow, and
Kari Doherty: like those were two parts that just needed to talk. You know. Wow. Wow, wow. And, and those two parts of me get to talk at Y 12 SR meetings.
Yeah.
Nikki Myers: We say that A stands for all asses. All asses are welcome in that service. Right. I love it.
you're breaking up a little bit. Your sound is breaking up just a little bit. Can
Kari Doherty: you hear me now? Yes. Probably just the. Let me know if that happens again cuz I could see you crystal clear. Okay, perfect. So we were talking about all asses and that being integration for me, what I get out of Y 12 Sr is integration where I can bring all of my asses to the meeting and talk about how all of that stuff brushes up against each other.
Cuz you can't separate.
Nikki Myers: Right. I will [00:21:00] never forget I was working in a treatment center and the, the focus of this treatment center was primarily related to food. Mm-hmm. . Right. And, and it was, you know, they treated an anorexia, bulimia food addiction, you know, compulsive overeating, that whole nine yards.
and I was listening to someone in, they had an OA meeting on the campus mm-hmm. and I'd never been to a, a meeting related to, to food. Right. Or, or that kind of substance. Mm-hmm. Related disorder. And I went in there and there was a woman given a lead talk, telling her story. And I'm sitting there listening to her and, and I'm going, she's telling my story.
Mm-hmm. , she was telling it was, She and I shared the same life, right. Childhood and life. Hers manifested that way. Mm-hmm. mine manifested in drugs and alcohol and it was then when I got it right. I'm listening to that and I'm [00:22:00] going, holy shit. , right? Mm-hmm. , there's something else underneath this thing, right?
No matter what the form of the manifestation, right? No matter what the form is. And then like we talk about , and then I watched me, I played Whack-a-Mole for years, right? Yes. Got drugs and alcohol together and then. Right. Worked with that. And then it was money and debtor spending. Right. And I worked with that.
I, I just played whack and
Kari Doherty: you could go to 15 different meetings. I mean, you could.
But you know, we also have to live our lives and participate in capitalism so that we can our, our rent through all the other things,
Nikki Myers: you know? So that's a whole nother subject about that addiction, right?
Okay. You're breaking up again.
Kari Doherty: Shoot. Is it just the sound or is it also my picture? It's just the sound. Interesting. I [00:23:00] wonder if it's my. Is it better now? It is. Okay. Does it break up for long when it happens? No, not for long. Okay. So I wanna talk about a couple of concepts that you bring up in Y 12 Sr.
One of the other things we say in the intro is that the issues live in our tissues, and we don't mean Kleenex. I always say we don't mean Kleenex, although they do sometimes they live in the Kleenex , right? But what do you mean by that? The issues live in our tissues.
Nikki Myers: It was some so funny someone gave me, and now when we do.
Conferences or we do all that stuff. We do get a little plaque of Kleenex or tissues and we write on it. The issues live in our tissues. , that's our little giveaway now, so I love that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. , all this stuff lives in our body, right? And truth is, like yoga says, there really is no separation between the mind, the body, yogas talk about those five bodies.
Mm-hmm. , right? And, and they talk about [00:24:00] 'em. So that we could, that way in that model so that we can get a, a, a deeper understanding and relationship with that at that level. But the truth is they're all the same. , they're all the same thing. The, the way we talk about it in one 12 Sr is the way that it was introduced to me from one of my teachers is like using H two O, you got two atoms of hydrogen, one atom of oxygen, which makes up the molecule H two O.
Mm-hmm. . But that one substance has, it performs and the solid form is ice and the liquid form is water. In the in. Gas form is vapor or steam, right. But it's all still H two O and it's the same with mind, body, spirit. It's the same with across those five bodies. Mm-hmm. , right? It really is all the same thing.
And what you do to one affects all the others. So a lot of [00:25:00] times we do, we start to think, when we think about the cognitive stuff, , we think that that the, the solution to the cognitive stuff, you know, lies in cognitive therapies, C B T and, and all its derivatives. Mm-hmm. and other forms of, of cognitive.
Therapies and actually what we do in one 12 SR is I'm sorry, what we do in 12 step programs. Mm-hmm. is a lot of cognitive work. Right. It's a lot of cognitive work, but that stuff lives beyond the cognitive. It really lives in our body. Right. Right. And more and more and more, especially as we have beginning these conversations about trauma, trauma lives in the body.
Mm-hmm. , it lives in the body. And so doing this set of. Coupleship, this integration between the cognitive and the somatic, [00:26:00] really, it's been what Wato Vaso was all about. Mm-hmm. , the way that that manifested in my life. I, I had several relapses. I was clean for eight years and a relapse. Then I was clean for another four years and I relapsed again.
Right. And the, the second relapse, the first relapse was really before, well, Before a deep integration with yoga. I was introduced to yoga back way long time ago. Mm-hmm. , right? And then kind of let it go and all of that. Got in 12 step, thank God, right? Mm-hmm. , because that stayed my life, right? And then the first eight years I did all these things, I went back to school, got my job, did, did N B A, did all all the stuff and.
at the end of that. Right? Right. At, at that eight years. And then I found yoga again, and I got knee deep in yoga and philosophy and practice and mm-hmm. , [00:27:00] all of those kinds of things. And then thought that that was the it for me. That was it. And then I relapsed again after four years, and it was after that, that, that second relapse, that was when Juan Posar was really born.
Mm. And I recognized, at least for someone like me, that there. The, the, that they had to be coupled. Yeah. Right. That this was a deep couple ship. Right. So using the work on the mat. In order to release what's held in the body and more, even more importantly, well, in some ways, the idea of using my work on the mat to create a container, right, a more expanded container so that I could really do even more of sometimes what as needed, that deep level.
Right. Right. You know, and, and we talk [00:28:00] about this a little bit in 12 steps, sometimes I may need E M D R mm-hmm. , right. Or I might need the somatic experiencing work. However, I need a container to hold that. Right. I need something to be able to, so that energy can move right. As I do this work. Right. And this practice is really what, what.
That's all about, and I know for me and over the course of the years of doing this work, you know, having worked with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people over the course of doing this years mm-hmm. , I see how this is supported to expand the container, to do the work that's necessary, right. To get underneath it all.
Kari Doherty: Absolutely. and you tell us you talk about in the training, one of my favorite things that you talk about is wisdom posture. You say find your wisdom posture. Can you tell us a little bit about what that
Nikki Myers: means? Yeah, that's one of my favorite things too. Right? [00:29:00] And it, it, I love this because it's something that I can use in the moment that I feel a little bit of dysregulation mm-hmm.
In my nervous system. Mm-hmm. in the moment I feel on the angst or. Activation or irritation mm-hmm. or any of that, that whole idea of finding the wisdom posture has been so, so that little tool that's just so, so useful for me. Right. And, and the, the idea is to find a place where I can pause. or I can stop.
Mm-hmm. usually, you know, if you start to, to really become aware of breath. Right? Right. We start to notice when there's any, we start to move into dysregulation. The breath pattern changes. Right. Right. And, and something happens with the breath. Right? Once I notice that, I can pause, reunite the [00:30:00] mind and the breath, because when the mind and the breath are reunited, I'm present when I'm activated or, or any of those kinds of things in any way.
Mm-hmm. , usually what I've done is time travel. I'm either in the past, right, or I'm in the future. I'm not present. I'm not present, and healing can only happen in the present moment. Right? Healing can happen in the past, nor can it happen in the future, right? Healing can only happen in the present moment.
Mm. So taking that pause in my wisdom posture. To come back to the present moment and just reuniting mind and breath, just simply reuniting mind and breath being brings me into the present moment, right? And once I'm in the present moment, I got choice. I don't have choice when I'm in the past for the future.
Right? Only have choice when I'm in the the present moment. So it opens up the [00:31:00] possibility of accessing the wisdom to know the difference. Yes, we talk about the wisdom to know the difference so much in 12 steps, but what we talk about here we assert, is I gotta create this environment so I even gain. To the wisdom,
Kari Doherty: the difference, yes, Brian,
Nikki Myers: I got access to it.
And that can only happen when I'm in the present
Kari Doherty: moment. One of the things I talk about when I teach a lot is you know, part of why we're practicing is to normalize choice. Like to make it a normal thing, like we're moving from pose to pose and we're making choices for ourself. I love it. You know, cuz a lot of times choices, I feel like when you're making choices, there could be a lot of kicking and screaming and bitching and you know, like, well, which choice is the right choice?
But you know, when we come to our yoga mat, it's like the opportunity to learn how to make choices without so much fuss. Like you just make the.
Nikki Myers: Breathe. Breathe. Come into, breathe into the present moment. Right. And [00:32:00] that's where, you know, we talk about this in, in one of the 12 step programs that have been so useful for me, that's when more can be revealed.
Right. That's when more can be revealed when I come back to it from this place of much more of an equanimity. When I'm not in the past, I'm not in the future. Right. I'm here. Then there's a possibility for more to be revealed. Yeah. Oh, I love it. I do too. I do too. I, I'm so
Kari Doherty: grateful. Can you speak to the impact that Y 12 SR has had on the recovery community and how it's contributed to the larger conversation around addiction and recovery?
Nikki Myers: I love that. What a great question. You're a great interview. Oh, thank you. I love this. Yeah, I love it. That's a great question because that's one of the goals of one 12 us. , right. One of the goals is to broaden this definition [00:33:00] of addiction. Mm-hmm. , so often when you talk about addiction, immediately the mind goes to substance or behavior.
Mm. Right, right. And. I assert that it, it, it's even bigger than, than substance and behavior. Yes. I, I say that from the perspective of the yoga sutures. Right. And, and I would assert that what Patanjali is, is referencing mm-hmm. when, when the, when the teachings around Avid. Come up, right? This whole idea, a video sometimes defined as ignorance, but not ignorance like we sometimes think of it.
It's this ignorance of, you know, I don't, not recognizing that I don't even know what I don't know. You don't even
Kari Doherty: know what you don't even know, right? You don't
Nikki Myers: even know. What you do and you, I don't know, I can see that pop up in so many [00:34:00] situations in my day-to-day life, right? Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. I was just having a conversation with someone and something about, or, or a couple days ago and something about that conversation.
Irritated me, right? Mm-hmm. , and it's not that I don't, don't acknowledge and feel that you feel the feelings, right? Like we talk about in, in program. However, what I came to realize, well, there were a whole set of things that were going on that I didn't even know, ,
Kari Doherty: right? Like with you or the situation or all this, with
Nikki Myers: the situation as a whole.
With the situation and with me. Right. And here's the, the piece of with me, if I hear that when I'm, for example, hungry, angry, lonely, or tired. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. , it looks completely different. Right? Mm-hmm. , when I go take a nap, wake up it's com, I can see the whole thing
Kari Doherty: from a completely, I can't even tell you [00:35:00] how sometimes I'm like on the edge of, I like, it's like I can't live anymore.
I don't know why I'm here. I don't know why my, I, why am I even on this planet? What is my purpose, my function here, and I take a nap, , and you wake up and it's all different and 75 minutes later I'm like, I'm.
Nikki Myers: It
Kari Doherty: could be so extreme and it's, you know, it's really nuts what could happen when even, you know, we're actually very.
Like sensitive creatures who are really susceptible to our environments and to our, our chemistry, and, you know, what's happening in here could really be so extreme.
Nikki Myers: We are interdependent beings. We're interdependent beings, right? We all have to be codependent. Nor can we be anti dependent. Right. Those are two things on the opposite side in extremes.
Right. We are interdependent being our, our homeostasis depends on the [00:36:00] interdependency really, of all things. Right? Right. So that, that whole thing That Paton Lee speaks about with avidya is a really big thing. It's false understanding is misinterpretation. Mm-hmm. . Right? It's all of those things. And when I think about what, at a deep level and feel into what that really is, it's much like what Dr.
Ba, bill W calls stinking thinking. Mm-hmm. , right? That is really stinking thinking and, and the. Foremost. Right. I don't wanna make a big generalization. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . But we're pretty much all addicted to the way we process our reality. Yeah. We pretty much are absolutely right. And once we recognize that, once we tell the, just like in step one, once we tell the truth about that, there's again this possibility to access what's beyond.[00:37:00]
Right. What it means. Just like it opened up and empowered me the moment I said, you know, looking at all the evidence around me, holy shit. And told the truth, I'm an addict. Right, right. And then there was an empowerment within that that opened up the possibility for healing. Mm-hmm. , we say it all the time in, in one, two of us are, you can't heal what you don't acknowledge.
Right. Right. You can't heal what you don't. . Right. So telling the truth about, I see things through a particular lens, right? And, and that's part of the deal. We're subjective
Kari Doherty: beings. I remember you telling us the, you have a, an analogy about if you're trying to get to San Francisco, but you're in Chicago and the ticket agent says, where are you?
And you lie and say, Ohio, you're never getting to San Francisco. You're never gonna get to San Francisco. Just, I'm like, okay. We have to acknowledge where [00:38:00] we are. . That's right. And tell the truth about where we are, because we will never get to San Francisco if we That's right. We tell the ticket agent that we're in Ohio.
That's right. And, and like that, just like, you know, when we sometimes take the personal out of it, it it makes more sense. Like, oh yes. Like I just have to, to. Say what's real? That's right. Say what's true, and then
Nikki Myers: there's possibility
Kari Doherty: and then there's possibility. ,
Nikki Myers: then there's empowerment. That's possible.
Right. I'm, I'm, I'm open for possibility at that point. So
Kari Doherty: what would you say to somebody who is new in recovery or recovery? Curious, because I always like to say recovery, curious and not sober. Curious, because I really don't think that all recovery has anything to do with. Sobriety, at least at first.
Yeah. I was in recovery for years before I got sober. You know, there were just other things to be in recovery for, and sobriety wasn't even on my like radar at the time. Yeah. Yeah. So sometimes those things come over time, but what would you say to [00:39:00] somebody who was recovery curious or who was new to recovery?
What would you tell them? What would you say to them?
Nikki Myers: You know, I, I love this. I got from, from one of my teachers, right? And when, when. My teacher, Gary said this, it just hit me in such a deep way. And it's so funny because he's not a really a 12 stepper or, or any, I mean, he's coming from his, oh my God, all his study over God knows how many years.
with deep, deep study in this yogic work and, and all the things that he does in this yogic work. But he was talking about, and he was delivering a teaching and this is what I tell everyone, and it has to do with that bigger conversation we were just having. Mm-hmm. this bigger picture of, of addiction and that whole idea.
in some ways, we're all working through this lens. We're all addicted. Mm-hmm. to the way we process [00:40:00] our reality. Mm-hmm. , and what he said was, examining our conditioning is our ticket to freedom. Mm. Examining our conditioning is our examining our lens and examining our condition, and that's what's stepping into recovery actually allows us to do it.
It actually allows us a container, right? This place where we can begin to examine. , all the things that, that are the condition when we come into this plane of existence when we're born, right? We're born completely right-brained, right? Mm-hmm. , you know, watching we, I've been
Kari Doherty: reading Jill Bolty Taylor's book.
That's
Nikki Myers: it. That's it. . That's it. Been reading,
Kari Doherty: been reading that new book, and it is a, a mindblower, I will say. That's my,
Nikki Myers: that's my, I love Jill Jill's. I do too,
Kari Doherty: and I'm one of my, Sprint. I know, and I love that you've been [00:41:00] bringing her into this recovery work. Yeah. I don't know if you know if it's via you, but I know that I've been seeing her more around you.
Yeah. Cause yeah. And yeah.
Nikki Myers: Yeah. You know, I love her.
Kari Doherty: Love her. It's just incredible. And uh,
Nikki Myers: so it's that idea, right? That yeah, that our left brain doesn't even come online really fully till we're seven years old. It doesn't even start till we're seven months old. And then we start all this programming. You get told you're a girl, girls do this, or you are a boy, boys do that.
Or you get told, oh, you're little, little means. Or you know, you're black. Black fits here, you're white, white fits here, you're this, we get, that's programming, that's conditioning, right? Mm-hmm. , right? And so part of the idea is examining that conditioning. Right. Who am I? Who could I be beyond that programming?
Right? What's the possibility? I've been shaped by that, right? I'm [00:42:00] in shaped by all of that, right? And what's the possibility around beyond all of that? And it's such a beautiful inquiry. So for anyone new who, who just is, is interested in this depth of work of, you know, who am I for real? For. Right. I, I love that.
If you're, if that's even a question for you mm-hmm. , if that's even a thought or a question for you Right. Then this is structured work, structured support in chipping away and I love that thought. We say this at the end of the, the training, right. The job is subtraction. We're already whole and complete.
Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. Right. And we're just chipping away and all this programming and all this stuff that's been sitting, that sits on top of our wholeness, right? And the 12 steps are a freaking brilliant way to I, they're brilliant. [00:43:00] I agree with you on that.
Kari Doherty: Absolutely. Brilliant. I know, I know it doesn't resonate for everyone, but it, it works for a lot of people.
Nikki Myers: What I find doesn't resonate for everyone is, is some of the implementations of mm-hmm. and, well, I tell this to people all the time. I have been to some very dangerous 12 step meetings. Mm-hmm. , right. I've been to very un what occurred for me is unsafe and dangerous. 12 step meetings. Mm-hmm. . That's, and I've been to some of the most healing and incredible and wonderful groups that you can imagine.
Right, right. So, but that's the same with churches, right? Or it's the same with yoga studios, the schools, yoga studios. It's the same. It's the same. Right? Right. That doesn't undermine just because I got a, a, a, a bad an off experience at a yoga school. I don't wanna throw out yoga because I got [00:44:00] this bad experience at, at a yoga school.
And it's the same with 12 steps. , right. Those 12 steps I would assert really are brilliant and there's something there in order to, to do this work. Yeah. So so that's what I encourage
Kari Doherty: people to do. I love that. I love that. Can you say that one more time about the conditioning? You said examine your.
Nikki Myers: Examine it. That's my teacher. Examining our conditioning is our ticket to freedom. Hmm. Examining our conditioning. Examining our conditioning is our, is our ticket to freedom. To freedom. Right. Okay,
Kari Doherty: so Nikki, what is up and coming in? Y 12, Sr. I know I, I follow you on Instagram, so I know that people can definitely follow you on Instagram if they're curious about taking a training or doing, and, and I know that you run a meeting still every Monday,
Nikki Myers: right?
I do. I'm meeting online. Monday night and a meeting in person in, in on Wednesday night. But I'm in Indianapolis, Indiana, and [00:45:00] right now we're not doing that in a hybrid form. Our meeting is
Kari Doherty: hybrid, which is, it does take that extra step, but I'm learning in hybrid and it's, it's good. You know, we have a computer and a.
We do a, a webcam and we had a woman show up to our meeting the other day from Indiana and we're in Portland. So she, it was 10 o'clock at night for her, but I love it. It's nice to be able to have people drop in from, it's,
Nikki Myers: it's a, I'm just getting, you know, I, years ago in my life, I was really, I would say tech savvy.
Yeah. And that, that kinda went. I'm not so much anymore, but I did my first hybrid training this past weekend. Amazing. And, and it, I mean there were a few glitches as I tried to figure out my way through it, but overall it went really well. That's
Kari Doherty: wonderful. So you're doing one in person, one fully virtual.
I'm always referring people, you know, the Y 12 SR website is a good resource. A lot of people find me from that website. That's how people find about meetings. . But there are [00:46:00] teachers listed on there. Yeah. And that meeting is listed under the meetings on the website. Yeah. And then do you have some trainings coming up?
What are some other things the organization is coming
Nikki Myers: up? We do. We do. We do, we do. We got coming up, I actually, it's one this weekend, so it's a little short. Mm-hmm. notice. But it's called Breaking Barriers, transforming the Samsara of codependency. Mm. And it's one of my favorite things to do. I always talk about, you we're speaking about this, we were talking about this before we record that, a whole idea of the disease of the lost self.
Mm, the disease of the lost self. So we start, tell us us
Kari Doherty: about that briefly. What
Nikki Myers: does that mean? We start to go into that it. Ultimately, anytime I look outside of myself for something that can only come from the inside. Hmm. Truth is I can form an addictive relationship with whatever that is. Yes. Right.
I've been in an addictive relationship. I always say with Nordstroms,
Kari Doherty: I minor spices. I could be like, I am not gonna be complete [00:47:00] until I have every spice that I. On my spice rack. I mean, I could turn anything into a weird relationship. That's
Nikki Myers: funny. Spices, . Oh my god. . Right, right.
Kari Doherty: You know, but like, I'm on a, I dunno if you know about pennies.
They're a spice company. Oh, I know Pens. Yeah. And I got on their newsletter and every week they're sending out these sales. And so I, you know, oh, a dollar here, $2 there. Oh, spend $10, get an extra. And before I knew it, I, I had a full blown.
Nikki Myers: Obsession . Oh man. Isn it A trip. No, that's it. I'm looking outside of myself for something that can only come from the inside.
Yes. Right. And the online thing is really a trip, right? I was talking about Amazon. You get four hits with Amazon, right? You get a hit when you see it. Oh my god. There's a hit, right? Yep. You get hit when you. Sin. Right. You know it's coming. You get a hit when it gets to your [00:48:00] door, and then you get a hit.
When you open the package, you open that. You are so
Kari Doherty: right on with that. Yep. I get all those hits, or especially when I forgot that I ordered it and I'm like, oh, what is it?
Nikki Myers: And here's the deal with that. Nothing wrong with Amazon, right? Nothing wrong with spices, right? Nothing wrong with it. Just a tool. It's me in relationship with those things. Right, right, right, right. And so that's this whole idea looking at, you know, anything I go to outside of myself that really what I'm looking for is something from the.
Hmm. Right, right. That really is co. A lot of times we say codependent, we think of it in relationship to another person. Right. And that's true. That's true. But the invitation is to look a little more deeply anytime
Kari Doherty: I look inside of myself. And so this workshop, we'll talk more about that. ,
Nikki Myers: it talks a ton about that.
Kari Doherty: [00:49:00] Do you offer this workshop regularly? Is this something that
Nikki Myers: if Yeah, we offer that one, three, at least three or four times a year.
Kari Doherty: Excellent. Yeah, we, we offer, and then there's the Y 12 SR training If people wanna become stakeholders.
Nikki Myers: Right, right, right. And there are a couple ways to do that training, but all that's on, on on the
Kari Doherty: excellent.
So the Y 12 SR website is a great place to find Nicki. Your Instagram is a great place. I know you post a lot of things on there. Well, I don't, up and coming. Well, somebody does , they make you look pretty good. Everyone behind the mastermind of is a great social media manager. Yes. Yes. . And thank God.
And then the meetings, I, you know, I often tell people like, if you wanna get to know Nikki Myers, check out the meeting. Yeah. Go to, go right to the source. So the Monday night meeting
Nikki Myers: is great.
Kari Doherty: It is. I went to that meeting many times. I. It's a lovely meeting and and even when you don't make it, you always have a really lovely person.
Yes, yes, yes. Who facilitates. So it's a really lovely way just to get to know you at kind of low key, [00:50:00] just to to check out recovery with you.
Nikki Myers: I love it.
Kari Doherty: I love you. So I am just so deeply grateful for this opportunity to talk to you, Nikki. It has been Me too, a dream come true. Me too. Just to sit with you and share ideas with you and.
And to share this podcast, this podcast is really near and dear to my heart. It's called, I Love it. I call it Luminous Recovery Yoga. Luminosity is in the yoga sutures, but it's also something that I have received from being in recovery and finding yoga, which is that like the fog lifts and That's right.
And and the light can shine through and and so I'd love it if you share this podcast as a resource for other students. We will believe that. I would love that. And we could grow this as another resource. Just another way to get the Y 12 US are out there. Even when people can't get to meetings or they can't you know, for whatever reason.
Nikki Myers: Finding the resources. It's a beautiful thing that you're doing with this. Thank you. Thank
Kari Doherty: you. I, yeah. And I'm, I just, I'm so grateful to you and I'm so grateful that [00:51:00] you made the time for this conversation. And I hope that anybody who's interested in Y 12 SR finds it. I, I want more pe I, you know, I know plenty of people who have taken the, the training with you.
And I also, if anybody out there is listening to this, who has taken the training and they have not yet dipped their toe into the space holder, Opportunity. It really is a blessing to offer that space for others. And I have a co-chair and it's incredible cuz Nikki says, get yourself a co-chair. Don't do wrong.
That's right,
Nikki Myers: that's right. Yeah. So anytime. Anytime as you're doing this podcast work. I'm, if you, yeah, I thank you. If you invite me, I'm here.
Kari Doherty: Thank you. Maybe I could have you actually run a an experience where you can share your experience, strength, and hope on a topic, and then teach us a, a short practice.
I
Nikki Myers: would love
Kari Doherty: that. That would be that. We'll set that up. That would be really fun. Let's set that up. All right. Thank you, Nikki. You're so, and for those who will be watching this, there will be show notes and a description where you could find more links and resources to get directly to [00:52:00] Nikki. And follow Nikki on Instagram and just let's blow this up.
Let's get Y 12 US R out there. Yay.
Nikki Myers: All right.
Kari Doherty: Thank you, Nikki. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Luminous Recovery Yoga Podcast. If you'd like to support the show, please consider joining my Patreon or leaving a comment and review. If you're listening on Apple Podcasts or YouTube,
